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Sexuality, Healing, and Resilience: Tools for Intimacy in Times of War

In this deeply insightful episode of Raw, I sit down with Smadar Miller—an educator, writer, and founder of transformative programs like “Krovim” for relationships and sexuality, and “Miller College” for women’s financial empowerment. With a unique blend of expertise in relationships, sexuality, and self-fulfillment, Smadar shares her profound perspective on how collective trauma, like the ongoing war, impacts intimacy, desire, and our connection to ourselves and others.

We delve into:
• The events of October 7 as a “symbolic assault” on Israeli society and their ripple effects on personal and collective sexuality.
• The challenges couples face during prolonged conflict—disrupted routines, long separations, and the impact on intimacy.
• How sexuality can serve as a healing force, reconnecting us to our bodies, our partners, and the present moment.
• Tools and practices for rebuilding intimacy and rediscovering pleasure during times of immense stress.
• Insights into parenting and how to talk to children about sexuality in ways that foster security and resilience.

Smadar’s thoughtful approach integrates culture, body awareness, and emotional independence, offering a roadmap for navigating relationships and intimacy even in the most challenging times. Whether you’re seeking solace, understanding, or tools for growth, this episode will inspire and empower you.

Tune in for a conversation that bridges the personal and the universal, reminding us of the healing power of connection.

  • 0:20 Intro Hi everyone, Before we begin today's episode, I want to let you know that it includes discussions about sexual violence. These conversations are thoughtful and important, but they may be distressing or triggering for some listeners. Please take care of yourself and decide whether or not to listen based on what feels right for you. 0:38 If you need to step away at any point or come back to this episode later, please feel free to do so. Thanks for joining. 0:45 Speaker 1 Trauma is about disconnection and loneliness and sexuality at his best is a very deep level of connection and of togetherness. It's it cures us. I think that's why it's so important. 1:00 That's why I say whenever, wherever you can be alive, vivid, celebrating life, do that. You know, it's about strength. It's about resilience. Yeah. And even though we've been wounded in this specific place, and maybe because of that, we want to be resilient in our sexuality and reclaim it. 1:25 It's like someone took it from us and abused it and we want to reclaim it. It's ours. It's our right. It's everyone's right to have their pleasure and sexuality. 1:54 Speaker 2 Welcome to RAW, a podcast where we confront the complexities of war from the inside out. I'm Manukh, a journalist, author, yoga teacher, and meditation practitioner. RAW, or War Spelled Backwards, symbolizes how many of us feel in the face of the Israel Gaza conflict, exposed, vulnerable, and seeking understanding. 2:17 Here, we don't just discuss the external battles, but dive deep into our internal struggles, examining how this violence has shaken our very core. Join me in conversations with philosophers, psychologists, and spiritual leaders as we explore how to navigate these painful times with wisdom and resilience, finding guidance for our own paths through this raw, unfiltered world. 2:48 Sosa Madar welcome. 2:50 Speaker 1 Hi. 2:51 Speaker 2 I've been waiting for you for a while. We're talking about the stress of war, but you just had the stress of traffic. 2:59 Speaker 1 And and weather. 3:00 Speaker 2 And weather and yeah, but I'm very happy to see you here. 3:05 Speaker 1 You made it. 3:06 Speaker 2 Safely tell us a little bit about you and your journey into being a sex guru, sex therapist however you want to call yourself. 3:20 Speaker 1 Wow, sex. More like sex gua. You know when he puts a puppy like the oh the gua? 3:25 Speaker 2 I thought like Gua in the feminine. 3:27 Speaker 1 No, no, the puppy, puppy. OK. And well, have you told me like 15 years ago that I'm going to be dealing with sexuality? I don't know what I would have said because it's like the most embarrassing thing ever. 3:45 And I, I remember thinking about all those people that write on the social media things about sexuality. This is so embarrassing. I wouldn't even give a like to that because I don't want to be associated with it. It seemed to be so far away from me, but it's been through my own journey that I realized that it's something, first of all, that's important to me. 4:11 Second, it doesn't always come easy and when I start working with couples about their relationship and I realized it in so many processes, people just leave the sexuality out of the question. 4:27 They either it's too scary or embarrassing to talk about and but it's so crucial and we can know everything about the relationship just looking at the sexuality. And I want to say that I was, I was moved from the request to come here and talk about the war and sexuality and the way this October 7th war affecting and affected Israeli sexuality. 4:58 And I think that even just the topic is a statement in two ways. First of all, you know, sexuality, many times our culture approaches it as something light, not very important, something for fun, like entertain, entertainment for adults and stuff like that. 5:20 And you don't worry, such an important thing and heavy thing, and it's a matter of life and death. It's going to be very easily put in a way that sexuality is not important right now. There are things that's far more important than this. 5:38 And by putting this topic say, hey, it is important, it's a part of our health and well-being and relationships. And so first of all, it says, OK, sexuality is important. 5:55 It's not a joke. It's not something that doesn't matter. 5:58 Speaker 2 It's a serious topic. 5:59 Speaker 1 It's a serious topic. 6:00 Speaker 2 And I have to say that the fact that I mixed it with this, with this podcast, which is about war, I think almost made it easier for me to have an episode that talks about sexuality. And I was very, I'm very relieved to hear that 15 years ago you would have been embarrassed about talking about sexuality because just driving over here, I realized how intimidated I was to talk about sexuality. 6:28 And, and by, you know, by pairing it with something serious, it becomes something that, you know, I'm entitled to talk about, you know, as the serious journalist that I am. But yeah, there was definitely a kind of like this, this thing still about sexuality that makes it difficult for many people to talk about. 6:52 And, and I think with what happened since the beginning of the war, kind of like the opening act was such a violent act of, of sexual, you have sexual violence and many people, not only the people who were directly affected, but so many people were traumatized that I'd just been wondering in this past year how it has affected people sexually, how it has affected sexuality on a kind of national level, you know, how this war is coming into the bedroom. 7:29 Speaker 1 Wow. The more I thought about it, and I also asked colleagues and I recall our conversations from from the clinic in so many ways, it affected our sexualities in so many different ways. 7:47 And The thing is, sexuality is such a vast subject and it's also it's about our relationship with our lovers. It's something with a within ourselves. It's about life force. 8:04 If you ask me what sexuality is, I don't know. It's kind of mysterious. And I think that before we we get into how it's got affected, maybe a word about what sexuality is. I don't know why it is, but I think I can say it's maybe we can understand it if we think of it as something that is kind of similar to water. 8:31 We all need water. We cannot live without it. We made of water, We contain water. Water can be so gentle and receive the structure of the container and also can be a huge force like tsunami or storm or even coming here in pouring rain, in heavy rain that I couldn't see. 8:52 And it's like, and I said, whoa, water can be so annoying sometimes. And, and also sexuality. It's going to be something so delicate. The feeling can be like such a gentle energy and it can be a force that is so strong. 9:12 It's going to be the most loving and intimate things we can share. And it can be a lethal weapon. It could be the cruelest weapon ever. And it can be like our deepest desire. 9:29 And it's also can be a nightmare. And, and since it has all this range, it can be so confusing. What's with my, you know, my relationship with my husband and the way we Make Love? 9:47 What that has to do with what happens happened at the Nova or in the kibbutz team? Is it from the same world? Is it has anything in common? 10:02 It does. And it's also kind of mixes in our thoughts and feelings. And this mixture is, I think it put all of us in a situation that we haven't been before. 10:18 That's something that didn't happen to me, thank God, or to someone I personally know. But the feeling was that there was, I would say, symbolic rape that the entire Israeli society felt, and there was actual rape. 10:42 But even whoever wasn't there, maybe even people that are not Israelis or Jewish women around the world, it's what's rape. Something intrudes your space, your body, your privacy, and something uninvited, unwanted, and all of a sudden you have no choice. 11:09 You're paralyzed. You cannot defend yourself and there's no one coming to save you. And I think the morning of October 7th, we all felt this way. We sat in front of TV. We saw and we know it's happening now. It is happening now. 11:25 And I'm sitting here paralyzed, helpless, and a sense of just the way I feel myself in the world, the way I trust other people, where the boundaries are, what's the level of being safe. 11:47 It's all just got broken in a minute. And, and I think it's something that that's a rape. It's something that starts and finishes and but something remains, something will never be the same. 12:08 And I think we all all had this experience. Of course we want whoever wasn't there. It's not like experiencing it on your own body. But the way it was broadcast and on the social media everywhere. 12:31 So I think Israel as a nation was being raped and intrude and we all felt so vulnerable and exposed. 12:42 Speaker 2 Yeah, it's like, you know, if I think of my own sexuality, I realized that everything that I was exposed to as a as a child, as a young woman, the messages I heard things I saw the kind of subliminal messages that I got about what it is to be sexual and what it is to be sexy, et cetera. 13:05 All that was part of, you know, my, my physical present moment sexuality. It's it's all still there. It's kind of like what you Stew in what you expose yourself to ends up influencing your your subconscious. 13:20 And so I think you're right that on October 7th, you know, even those of us who didn't watch the videos and there weren't even, you know, that many videos. And that was, you know, a problem for all those who said that, you know, who who delegitimized the idea that sexual assault even happened. 13:38 We all know it did. But because there weren't, you know, so many images and videos, you know, some around the world who want to delegitimize Israel or women in general, you know, say it didn't happen. But regardless of that, for those of us who knew it happened, who saw some images on social media, you know, our imagination as you know, as these evolved humans that we are so powerful that in a way kind of filling in the blanks is, is, is just as horrendous perhaps as if, you know, we'd seen it. 14:13 And so I think like it's, it's very important what you said that a lot of people probably, you know, don't think that their own sexuality has anything to do with those rapes on October 7th. 14:29 But you know, the subconscious has a way of, of kind of storing things. And, and I think for a lot of people that I have spoken with it, it affected them, but maybe in different ways. And some people really did not want to be touched or were afraid, even if their, you know, partner that, that they felt safe with before. 14:52 And, and some people felt like a stronger desire to connect, to be intimate, to be safe and even to procreate. I don't know, you know, some people told me there's been like a war baby boom. I don't know if that's true or not. 15:08 Speaker 1 It's coming, it's coming. 15:09 Speaker 2 It's coming, definitely. So how did, if I may ask? 15:13 How did you experience the rapes? How did you personally experience it with the tools that you have? 15:17 Speaker 1 Well, I remember asking my husband if we he can please make a license for a gun, which I've never thought. I mean I don't want weapons in my house but any refused. 15:34 But the the first weeks, I think many people had nightmares. So our subconsciousness was processing for us all the fear and horror and, and all those feelings and pains that we felt. 15:58 And also many people were actually afraid it might happen to them. And I want to remind us that the next day, thousands of men just took off and went to the. 16:13 Speaker 2 To the reserve to. 16:13 Speaker 1 The reserve so many women first being exposed to this horrible stuff and they kept on coming on social media and we just it took time to realize how big the the the event was and at the same moment their protector is away. 16:38 He's going to protect the state. While the feeling was for maybe for the first time that we're not saving our own homes no matter where in Israel. We are in some places more than others. So I, I know that now it's coming up in therapy that people start processing what they've been to, but so many women were like, on the one hand, I understand you have to go. 17:04 I'm proud of you. I support you and you go and you risk your life. I just want to be there for you. On the other hand, I'm furious. I'm disappointed. Hey, you're my protector. You're the guardian. 17:19 Where are you? I'm here with the kids alone and maybe I don't know if it's more dangerous out there where you're going, like to the border or here or here. 17:29 Speaker 2 At home, Yeah. Those first few days, I remember also, you know, first of all, you know, I'm, I'm coming clean here for the first time that I also asked my husband to, to apply for a gun license. And I cannot believe you would have told me that. You know, at any other moment in my life, I would have, you know, said no matter what, that would never happen. 17:50 But also my husband has like this big Rambo knife with like, his name, you know, inscribed on it. And on that first night, you know, I, we, I asked him to sleep with it under the pillow. We didn't know there was still these, you know, rumors about, about thousands of terrorists being in Israel and we didn't know where and in which cities they were. 18:10 And then, of course, there were a lot of sirens in the following day. So what you said, you know, suddenly I hadn't thought about that, about these women who in those first few days that I remember is absolutely terrifying. Many of them had to suddenly be alone and be and feel less protected. 18:28 Speaker 1 Yes, and also the men themselves. OK, It's my duty. I've been trained to do this. And this is like, this is my moment as a soldier, OK? And, and, and they just ran and, and, you know, and so many of them just volunteered even before they got the call. 18:47 And also I want to go, but what about my family? I'm worried about them because no one knew what's going on. And, and I and I start seeing these images and I start understanding what's happening. What happened to women, also to men in the in the Ortefaza? 19:08 Where am I supposed to be? Who am I supposed to protect now? We felt so vulnerable and exposed like never before. And also, I I thought about it, I never realized, or maybe it was more comfortable not to realize that sexual violence used to be war weapon all throughout history, maybe because because we tell history rather than her story. 19:38 So when I learned history in school and university, I don't remember a discussion about rape as part of war and as a war weapon. I thought maybe soldiers being so far away from home for such a long time and they're being bored and aggressive, so they pick on the natives women, native women. 20:03 But I never thought it's a weapon with a purpose. Those people were given orders to rape. It's a weapon that that's exactly what it's supposed to do. 20:18 Put the other side in horror and humiliate and OK, we know, missiles, we know. Bombs when we even know you know that buses being blown away. 20:35 We know horrible stuff. But this and I remember things that these people are supposed to be religious in what religion is this OK? Is this something you commend other people to do? 20:54 And and I and I thought to myself, damn, I was being so naive my entire life. It's like I was living in, I don't know, in in some kind of Disney movie. And reality is so much harder than that. 21:09 Yeah. So it was eye opening in the most. And and and and you look at like the human race and you say, really? 21:21 Speaker 2 Yeah, I can. You know, now as you're speaking, I'm I'm realizing that it, I mean, in in your daily life, you deal with sexuality as a positive tool and as something that can connect and as something that can enliven and as something that can create. 21:41 And so it makes sense that you're saying that that was a very kind of clear kind of cut almost with that reality. When you realize that this, this, this thing that is, you know, I'm sure you find also one of the most beautiful things that are at our disposal in this life was used, like you said, as a weapon of war. 22:02 And and maybe that's precisely why, because it's the ultimate, it's, it's the ultimate powering over. It's the ultimate form of control. It's the ultimate form of dehumanizing the other. 22:18 And, and I was thinking also at the time that the rape of women and men is both a message to the women of, you know, we are, you know, we are the strong and the powerful. And it's the message, a message to the men as well, that, you know, we rape your, your, your women. 22:39 You cannot protect them. And you know, I, I, I don't want to dwell too much on what happened, but it's just to say that the, the goal was to traumatize. And it's no wonder that it succeeded. 22:55 And, and so how do, how do you deal? 23:01 How to deal with trauma How do people like you now deal with, with people who are traumatized from what they've seen And, and then all the rest that has happened in the past year, like you said, men who have been away for months on end. And how does all that get get worked through digested? 23:24 Is there a way to do that? Is now the time or is it, you know, we're putting it on the side because we're in survival mode? When is the right time to kind of unpack this, you know, sexual insanity? 23:40 Speaker 1 OK, first of all, I'll say that that therapists and professionals, we're also part of the event. Nothing can prepare you to that to that. We've never been through a situation like that before. And we also personally dealing with with this. So so we are learning on the go. 23:59 And I also say that whoever deal with sexuality trauma is not new to us because so many people come to celebrate sexuality, but they have in the background some some wounds so. 24:13 Speaker 2 Right, it's not all just Tantra and and and bliss. 24:17 Speaker 1 No, and, and it's also very emotional and it touches us. And so it's it's a, it's a deep thing. It's a it's something that especially in long term relationship, we get to, to get to the depth of our feelings of our identity. 24:39 That is so many levels. So it's always a complex thing. We have this maybe because rarely we we ever speak about sexuality in a mature and honest and profound way. 24:57 So everybody thinks it just goes like that naturally for other couples and what's wrong with us? But for most couples throughout the years, it's a complex thing. It changes, it's even developed. 25:12 It's it has its ups and downs. It's a thing. So it's not like all of the sudden we have to deal with something which is not butterflies and and then chanting mantras. And I think the most important message that we can have for people is, first of all, we all got touched by this. 25:38 It's OK that it's affected us. First of all, something major happened and it touches all of us and it's OK. That's the first thing. Second thing, everyone reacts differently. 25:55 Some people can be very emotional and feel a lot of pain. Other people can feel completely disconnected. This is OK and this is OK 'cause let's say in a couple about one of them I can't even think about having sex now. 26:14 I'm so sad and I'm so moved and I'm so shook. And the other one is like, exactly. Things are so horrible. Let's let's find comfort and, and let's be together. 26:31 Let's celebrate the fact that we're alive. Let's enjoy what we can as long as we can. So this can be different approaches, different reactions to the same reality. And it's also important to say there's no right way or wrong way. 26:47 And I want to normalize and validate that whatever you're feeling is normal and is OK. Maybe you want to get some help, but be gentle on yourself because it's affected us. 27:04 Some people stress really depress their sexuality. 27:14 How stress can depress libido Yeah. When I'm stressed, I cannot even think about going to bed other people. That's the way to relieve stress. So the more distressed, the more the libido is going crazy. They just. 27:28 Speaker 2 Need a release? It's their form of releasing that stress from their body. 27:32 Speaker 1 Now what usually happens, I don't know why they tend to marry each other. So the one they want to have sex in order to soothe and and and relax putting pressure on the other one, which as we said, pressure is like putting out their livido. 27:54 So the more pressure there is, the less they want to have sex. And it's just like this cycle that they cannot meet. Also I know of women maybe men too that had like flashbacks from the picture they've seen even if they did not watch even just their imagination told them I was there and something was like flashback in the middle of having making love with the partners. 28:25 All of a sudden, instead of enjoying and feeling safe, you have this flashback and you just, you feel like. 28:35 Speaker 2 Could it be also, you know, kind of like a form of guilt of of kind of, you know, being in the moment, enjoying and that flashback coming in as as a kind of guilty reminder of, you know, there you shouldn't be enjoying because I feel like there's that also a lot in society, maybe less as the year goes on, but it's still a very strong pull away from allowing ourselves to just enjoy life, enjoy our bodies, have feel pleasure when we, you know, know what happened, what is happening. 29:09 Speaker 1 Yes, so many people have this thought even let's say my my husband's son is in the military and in Gaza for a month now and I'm crazy worried really. And so many times you have the thought like we're having dinner or we're making love or we just going to a movie. 29:32 But he's there in Gaza. But I think and what I also tell people is whoever can be alive now, should whoever can enjoy love, have some sense of sanity and and or purpose or relief, have it as long as you can. 30:03 And we're not helping people who experience grief or in captivity or serving in the Army. We're not supporting or helping them by being miserable here or less alive, or avoid things that are good for us. 30:26 We're not helping. We need our vitality. We need a life force. And sexuality is such beautiful manifestation of US wanting to stay alive, be alive and thrive and celebrate. 30:46 Speaker 2 If you're enjoying this conversation, don't forget to subscribe to RAW on your favorite podcast platform. Leave a review and share it with someone who might find it meaningful. You can also explore more about the show and subscribe to my.newsletter@withanook.com. 31:05 Speaker 1 I want to say something about sexual fantasies because many people, especially women, tend to have, they rarely ever talk about it, fantasies that has something to do with violence or domination. 31:23 Yeah, and even rape. And it came very strongly after the October 7th. And I want to explain what it is. It's not that you want to be raped or dominated over, Of course not the other way around. 31:46 The essence of rape is that you're unable to save yourself to to make it stop. When you fantasize, you can stop it any minute. So it's a mechanism that our brilliant mind created that can in some way regulate or bring back sense of control. 32:13 So if you find yourself having this kind of thoughts in in in the middle of having sex or why is it doing here? It's why is part of my arousal. Why, what's, what's wrong with me? It's probably a way of your system to process your deepest fears in a way that you can control that you can at any moment, you can just stop it. 32:43 So it's an important thing to say because people were so confused and and ashamed because they have these thoughts and feelings. 32:53 Speaker 2 I want to linger there a little bit more because, you know, I, I was thinking about that in the context of, you know, if you remember a few years ago, the book 50 Shades of Grey and the kind of, you know, it opened women up to, to this idea that it's OK and that it's so mainstream to, to kind of fantasize about being dominated and the, and the, the, the, the strong, yeah, domineering man who comes in and, and tells you what to do. 33:23 Why do women fantasize about being dominated? And, and, you know, for many women, it's, it's very arousing. Like you said, I have a hard time. Like, you know, that's not rape. So what, why do women, you know, why do women have that or many women have that kind of appeal towards the idea of of being powered over or dominated, you know, and again, like you said, not actually wanting it in reality, wanting to fantasize about being able to make it stop. 33:59 But why is there that? And then why does it make us feel so ashamed? 34:09 Speaker 1 'Cause it is very confusing, like I don't want this in my reality, it's my deepest nightmare. I don't want this. Why is it arousing for me? And I want to say apart from processing something with a sense of control, I also want to say that in cultures where female sexuality is being denied depressed, we still used to. 34:41 We can express ourselves as sexual object, but not as sexual being that have desires and fantasies and and and needs and wants. So for many women to just fantasize about me expressing my sexuality doesn't feel right. 35:05 But if it's being forced, it's not my initiation. It's not coming from my need or want. Someone else is the one with the needs and and I'm being just the object. It feels more safe, more OK. 35:23 I don't feel the guilt or shame or fear of being expressing or feeling my own desire. So it's kind of a trick that we play on ourselves that I can have this image of me as being sexual without having to be the one that actually wants, needs, loves having sex. 35:49 Speaker 2 This is, you know, such a light bulb moment for me. What you just said, it makes so much sense. And I'm so glad that after 39 years, you know, I, I, first of all, I'm, I'm going to reflect on it for, for, for a while, but it suddenly makes so much sense to me given the society that we live in. 36:10 You know, I, I, you know, I know the Western society, you know, better than other societies because that's what I grew up in. But I, I can pretty much say with, with, you know, almost certainty that almost all the messages that I got were about, you know, pleasing, pleasing the male fantasy, not being too needy in my sexual desires, not showing myself as, as, you know, kind of demanding or, or wanting or desiring certain things. 36:45 And so it kind of answers the question for why a lot of fantasies end up being, you know, it's, it's OK for me to have them because I imagine the man's need being, you know, what matters here. 37:02 And I'm only getting pleasure from, from, you know, satisfying this, this man's all consuming, powerful needs. It's very interesting. And it is something that for me was also brought to the surface by October 7th. 37:19 It's almost like it's so much harder to have those fantasies because we know now that in reality they're horrendous, right? In reality, we know they, they happen in reality. 37:35 And so it's harder to have those fantasies. And so I have been questioning what is my sexuality? Who am I and what are my needs? I've actually been asking myself that in the past year. 37:50 Yeah. What do you think about that? I don't know if I'm exposing myself too much. I go from not wanting to talk about sexuality at all to kind of hinting. 38:00 Speaker 1 It happens many, it happens many times because, you know, once we already like finally have the opportunity to talk, we want to talk about it because everything we don't talk about is that's where we're lonely and we stay with our staff and no one's there with us. 38:20 So. And I want to take you to the place that as an invitation for people to talk with their partners, with friends about what they really feel, what they really deal with. 38:35 And so we get to see that we have so much in common, even the things that we thought that must be just me who have this weird thing. No. And also yes, I think that women's sexuality throughout history has been under attack from all kind of angles and, and and things and just the place to see. 39:04 All right, wait, if I don't have to please anyone or be afraid that something bad might happen to me, who am I? What is the sexuality that evolving from me? 39:20 What does it want? Why it doesn't want? What am I doing just because I got the image that that's what's needed. And you know, so many times working with couples, you see that they had no no one was giving them no serious guidance for real sexual life of couple while they've seen porn and Hollywood movies. 39:53 That gives you no idea. And it has nothing to do with the women's sexuality. And so which is by the way. Amazing, endless, so rich, so vital. 40:10 I understand why people were so afraid of it for so many years, because it is extraordinary and and it's like a land that no one has ever set foot on. Like nobody, almost nobody knows what it's like when it's not trying to defend itself or please, please someone. 40:33 And I think it's exciting to go and and explore that. And many times my work with couples just to release them from all kind of have to's that I picked like how many times we do it, how do we do it? 40:49 What is sexual relationship with what is not? 40:54 Speaker 2 How long should it be? You know, where should it be? You know, with position, I mean, all these ideas, right, that have nothing to do with what I am feeling in this present moment. So I, I have to say that for me, coming from a history of trauma and being very disconnected from my body, for me, what was very helpful and it's still unfolding is my, my meditation practice. 41:23 Once I learned to be in the present moment in my body, to feel my sensations, to feel my emotions, to feel my needs in the present moment, that was like, that was like stepping into a completely different universe. 41:41 Whereas before when it when it related to sexuality, but pretty much to anything, I was, you know, stuck in this bubble in my head that had certain ideas of how things should be or sound or look or, you know, not be. And so is that one of the tools that you use in in your practice? 42:04 Is it kind of like mindfulness, being aware of your body in the present moment, really feeling into it? Is that one of the tool that you might suggest? 42:15 Speaker 1 More than that, what we teach my husband and I we call mindful sexuality. And it's actually it's, it is it. And people practice mindfulness for them, it's like it's the easiest to step into mindful sexuality because it's like letting go of the strategy or the plan. 42:40 People enter bed with a plan of what's supposed to be, what we're going to do, and you let go of what we think we should. It's amazing that adults, just two adults together, they owe nothing to no one. 43:00 It's only for their own pleasure. And they still feel like they have to deliver orgasms, penetrations hard on. Who are you working for? Like, right, Right. 43:16 Speaker 2 Who is this big audience that is, that is, you know, watching you? 43:20 Speaker 1 And if you're failing to do all the all the to check V on, then you feel like something's wrong with us, with me, with our relationship. And we get so worried about it. So we try harder to be OK when there's no one there. 43:37 It's it's our own playground. How did we make it to be like school? It's a playground and so we get into the of meeting each other with so much pressure, we can fail. 43:56 And what is one of the most important thing is to take failure out of bedroom. No failure. There's no way to fail even if we don't feel like we can get into sexual mood or we cannot get erection or penetration orgasms. 44:15 It's about failure. That's the one place that we don't have to prove nothing to no one. We here for our own pleasure. And we see that so many things that people consider dysfunctional sexual problem like penetration and, and, and, and rich orgasms and all kind of stuff, they are 90% of them are stress related. 44:43 This stress of not failing with doing sex normally like we should for some reason. And first of all, we relax. If I want to give like a practical tip, usually when people say, OK, let's Make Love, they're just trying to heat things up and OK, let's start to get things boiling. 45:08 And when we say no, start with bringing the BPM down, the heart rate. Yeah, deep breath and relax together. 45:23 When you relax together, body next to to another body, you have the sink. And if you don't sink, it's not going to work. Like everyone has their own pace and, and we're not going to be that together. We have to sink first. 45:39 So we first relax and then we start our journey together. And for many people that's like what we're going to fall asleep, we'll find a way to start. But this relaxation is in order to get us to mindful situation when we pay attention to our breathing, to our body, to the little feelings within our body. 46:08 And we want to stay this mindful all the way through. Now physical pleasure is multiple like 100 times. When you're mindful to it, you want to feel more. 46:24 Pay attention to the sensation. 46:28 Speaker 2 Just a small note there because, you know, and this is going into details because I have a mindfulness practice and I sometimes realize that when, but generally when I'm, you know, if I'm on on my own and I feel very stressed, I might feel some kind of like sexual desire. 46:44 But then if I relax my body, sometimes that sexual desire goes away actually, because I'm like, I'm good now, you know, I'm fine. I'm just happy being, you know, reading my book. So how does that go with what you you know? Well, you say kind of like relaxing, calming your body. 47:00 Speaker 1 Because we divide it into two phenomenons. When I'm, I feel like this sexual energy is something I want to get rid of. We call it horniness. OK, When I need it now, then usually I just want to release stress. 47:16 I want to use sexuality to soothe myself. We don't recommend approaching each other with this kind of using the other person's body for my release. And it's not very recommended every now and then, OK, It's like, you know, it's like emotional eating, which is my favorite eating, I must say, and nothing more tasty than no. 47:44 But but maybe I want to stay there for a moment and see what's beneath. Beneath the stress is usually fear or anger or sadness. Maybe I want to be with my feelings rather than waking up someone in the middle of the night and using their body for my emotional release. 48:07 So that's that. I would call horniness rather than passion. That is never urgent. It's not. It doesn't have to be now there's something more relaxed about it. And so if I, if I say, OK, I, I take a step back and I just relax and I start building the energy from a lower, lower point, The lower you start, the higher you get when you get to the height. 48:40 So, and it's also if we if we have to be so careful not to blow it, not to fail, not to make something that is not going to work. We have no freedom to explore what I just said. 49:00 Yeah, maybe sometimes we, you know, we're going to take it easy and then we're going to step out of sexual mood and that's OK. And so we have to have the opportunity, the freedom to explore and see what happens. 49:21 If we cannot explore and see what happened because you're so afraid of of failure, then we get stuck in the same few things that we know that work and we do over and over again, and we cannot evolve there. 49:39 Speaker 2 What is needed? You know, we're both moms. What is needed? 49:44 Speaker 1 To to teenagers, by the way. To teenagers, yeah, that's when sexuality is like, coming from a different direction. 49:52 Speaker 2 OK, so, so as a mom of teenagers, how, what do you need to to be to say to do in order to try to foster in children a sexuality that is, that is healthy, that is authentic, that is kind, that is pleasurable. 50:15 Because, you know, I feel like as a mom there, I'm comfortable approaching all topics and I've worked so much on myself. But sexuality is still an area where, like you said, I was never told anything, you know, in any way kind or mindful or or authentic about what sexuality might be. 50:41 And so it's like at this stage in my life, I'm still learning that how do I talk to my children so that they get the messages that I might not have gotten and that so many of us or most of us did not get. 50:56 Speaker 1 Wow, first of all, to all the moms out there, May God help us. It's such a complicated thing and it's. But I want to say, first of all, even the fact that we are seeing here, having this conversation, I cannot imagine. 51:13 I don't, I don't know your mother, but my mom wouldn't have this conversation ever with anyone. And so we're in a different place than what our parents were. And our kids, it's a different generation. 51:33 They're so much better than us. And, you know, my kids tell me stuff that whoa, I realized that when I was 30. You're 13. The emotional intelligence is just mind blowing. 51:51 And we have to understand that these are better people, that they are the next generation, first of all. And also the, the situation, what's going on with social media, what they're being exposed to for good and for bad, it's a different story. 52:08 They live in a world that people talk about sexuality and show it and share it in a way that sometimes is scary and, and is not not suitable, but it's there. 52:24 And I think what's more important than anything is to do our work. I cannot support my kids having positive sexuality if I'm still in deep conflict or not. 52:45 I, I don't have to be already that everything is fine. We, we people on the way. And the fact you said I'm still learning, I think that's the most amazing thing because it's like, even if you don't talk about it, you know, they feel and the message they get, it's something evolving. 53:04 It's something we can learn. It's something that you're always on the way. It's not like this, is it? There's still more to to know about it even when you're old as mommy and, and yes, and it's, and it's also a place for us to, to find a way, even though it's so embarrassing to be able to, to talk about just so the words are, are familiar, are OK if someone said the word in the house. 53:38 So wow, where did this come from? So they have and even just, you know, I told my kids once and they, I said it when they were so little and they still recall it every time the kid, they keep reminding me that I said it. 53:54 How to deal with a child who is a murderer And I said to my girls, I have two girls. Even if you grow up to be a murderer, I'm your mother and I'm I'm on your side. 54:09 Speaker 2 That's unbelievable because I said that to my daughter yesterday who talked about, you know, who's very, who's going through an angry phase. She's the middle child. And anyway, and she I said, Naya, I love all of you. Doesn't mean I accept all your behaviors, but I love you. 54:25 I don't, you know, judge you. And she said, even if I kill you and I said yes, you know, then my God, if you, if you did that, then of course I would love you because, you know, I'm your mother. She's like, you wouldn't be around to love me anyway because you killed me. 54:41 Hello. Because I just murdered you. 54:45 Speaker 1 Yeah, but there's something I think it's important because so many times if you, if you talk just for for a moment about that, the dangerous part of it that you, your kids needs to know that if they're being heard by 1 by someone, usually people mix it with the guilt and and they feel like maybe they did something wrong. 55:12 So it's important even at the age it's, you don't want, maybe you don't want to discuss sexual assault or violence, but they know that you believe them and you'll be on the side. 55:28 And no matter what they do, you're on their side. It's so important even just that. So if you know they get pregnant or they they have some, they get themselves in some kind of trouble and they know there's a place which is safe and it's not going to judge them or punish them. 55:51 This is so important. 55:53 Speaker 2 I was, I'm wondering kind of what is the, you know, one or few messages that I want to, you know, impart to my children. 56:02 What messages do you want to impart to your children? And I guess again, it's such an interesting place to be when I'm, you know, I haven't fully internalized those messages yet, but I know that I want them to, for example, know that it's normal and human and celebratory to, to want to feel pleasure. 56:21 And, and of course, I want them to know that, you know, their body is, is their own and they have, you know, it's, it's nobody else can can touch it or, or use it in a way that they don't feel comfortable And same, you know, for them towards others. 56:39 And I was thinking especially of, you know, my sons and wanting to, to impart that message in a society that I feel, you know, so few men have received that message of, of respecting women's bodies. At what age do you think, you know, can we start talking about these things? 56:56 What are some of the messages that you think are the most important for for us to impart to children? 57:01 Speaker 1 I think that spoken messages are really overrated. And I think it starts the moment, you know, when, when, when my my daughter was just a little baby and you know, I wouldn't give her to someone else to hold unless you would like poach her hands. 57:24 Like it's like she wants to go there. It starts with that. And before we wanted to have all kind of conversations. Is it in our home? Do we respect each other boundaries? 57:40 Do I smash my kid just because he's so yummy and even though he's screaming and mommy, I don't want your keys or anything, but you're mine and I want to and I want to hug you now. So I I force you into my hug. That's the message no matter how many conversations you're going to have about it. 57:58 And. 57:59 Speaker 2 Or even many times, you know you have to kiss your grandfather, you know? 58:04 Speaker 1 We don't have, we don't have to kiss people unless we really want and we don't receive kisses just because, just because it's polite. And not all grandparents love this, this, but it's a thing that even if the other side is getting offended, it's it's OK. 58:25 It's still yours to choose. And do we knock on the door before we enter the rooms? When the teenagers do we ask before we touch them? Do we also have the like for me, when I'm eating, I cannot have people touching me. 58:47 Like my daughters know they can't touch me when I'm eating because it drives me mad. So there's a limit. There's a pleasant time that we don't touch mommy and it's respected and it's OK. So it I think it's more about really internalizing this much as within ourselves and behaving them rather than. 59:10 Speaker 2 Speaking them. 59:11 Speaker 1 Yeah, preaching. 59:12 Speaker 2 Yeah, yeah. Going back to sexuality, you know, since October 7th, I just want to, you know, to, to, you know, for people listening and like you said it, it touched people in so many different ways. I want people to have validation that whatever they're going through is OK. 59:31 So I'm just going to, you know, throw out some, some, some states that people might be in and you tell me if that's normal. 59:42 Speaker 1 I'll just bring my normality book for me. I'll check it out OK. 59:46 Speaker 2 Yes. So if you know since October 7th, I just feel disconnected. I don't want to have sex or I don't want to have as much sex. Is that normal? Definitely. And if since October 7th, I feel kind of so much tension and stress in my body that I am, you know, horny all the time, is that normal? 1:00:07 Speaker 1 Yes, but I want to say it is normal. But if it's bothering you, you can get some help with the first one as well. If you're worried about it or if you wanted to be different, then these are things and, and it's, it's not about is it normal? 1:00:29 But it sounds like in both cases that you mentioned, there's something there that maybe it's good to take some time to see what's lying within underneath this feeling or behaviour or this connection and maybe get some help or help myself. 1:00:51 Maybe it's a call for help in a way. 1:00:55 Speaker 2 And what if you know, because there are people also, you know, in this days of like self help and Wellness, often think they add the extra guilt of not seeking help. 1:01:07 How to seek help And I find that, you know, some, so many people still live in survival mode in the fight or flight, the displaced and you know, the people who haven't gone back to their key would seem and moms who are alone with many kids and their husbands in Milouim or hostage families, etcetera. 1:01:22 Is it also OK and normal sometimes to say I cannot get help right now? I'm putting it, I'm going to get there when I get there. 1:01:32 Speaker 1 Of course, there's only so much we can handle and, and some of us are like the everyday life is still on survival mode there. And of course, and also things, you know, some things are so painful, it takes time and courage and resources to get to touch them. 1:01:58 And sometimes we don't have that. Sometimes we don't have it available right now. And sometimes it may take even years before we'll have the inner sources to to go there. 1:02:14 And it's absolutely OK. 1:02:17 Speaker 2 And if people do want to to seek help, what what do you offer? How can they find out more? And what kind of resources do you usually suggest? Or if people have limited financial means and and kind of want to work on their sexuality. 1:02:37 Speaker 1 First of all, people was made in their reserve service so they get they got all kind of money that is especially for emotional help or carpal therapy. 1:02:53 So use, take whatever you can and use it. 1:02:58 Speaker 2 Take what they give you. 1:02:59 Speaker 1 Yeah, definitely. And use it. You all need it. And, and I think what's most important is to, to find a person that you feel comfortable with and whom you trust. 1:03:18 Sometimes it doesn't have a lot to do with their, their degree or how well known they are or expensive they are. It's, it's a human connection. 1:03:34 And if you want to open up and you, you want to feel that you can trust. So I would say take some time when choosing the person you want to work with and make sure that it feels right more than anything because it's a therapist can be great for this couple but not for us and it's OK also. 1:03:59 Speaker 2 And does it ever work to to to work on yourself alone, you know, if you're in a relationship and do you usually advise people go to therapy as a couple if it's about sexuality or, or you know, individual therapy? 1:04:15 Do you recommend therapy as a couple or individual therapy? Is there any? 1:04:19 Speaker 1 It depends. I think many times when you come as a couple, it's like it. It gives the therapist the entire picture. And many times, which is so important to say that usually in every couple, there's one with the higher level of desire for for sex and one with less, Of course, who thought we're going to have the same exact amount of, like we don't have the same, I don't know, level of desire for food or sleep. 1:04:52 So why, when it comes to sexuality, we think we're supposed to be? 1:04:56 Speaker 2 In Sync. 1:04:57 Speaker 1 Yes, all the time and but when the gap is growing bigger and someone wants more and more and the other one wants less and less, many times they think the problem is of the lower lower desire. 1:05:17 And so many times also the person with the less desired things. Something wrong with my sexuality. Maybe it has to do with my background or my history or whatever. And the problem is within me, this love, guilt, guilt and shame. 1:05:35 I want to say that usually the the growing gap is a dynamic between the two of them and not one of them is not OK or having a problem. So sometimes it's very helpful for a professional to see both of you and for you to learn the dynamic in what way we are growing this gap instead of narrowing it. 1:06:05 So when we're in in a relationship, our sexuality is personal and interpersonal. So we want to see both of the and a good, a good professional can deal with both, which was what personal, what interpersonal. 1:06:22 Speaker 2 I want to finish on a positive note, if we can. You also talk about sexuality as a space for and a tool for healing, for healing deep wounds at one In what way can can sexuality help us deal with all kinds of traumas from life? 1:06:49 Speaker 1 First of all, I want to say that being in a relationship, we're not therapists of each other. I don't think we we suppose or able to deliberately cure so especially when dealing with trauma. 1:07:09 But then again, when sexuality is being released from the fear of failure and from expectation and from pressure that we put on each other and when it's not something that we need, but something we can share and celebrate. 1:07:31 When we get to sexuality in order to give rather than to take, then it's a very unique connection that happened there that also effects our hormones, our health, our our blood circulation consciousness. 1:07:50 And there there can be those moments when everything is aligned and that's healing. And that can happen. It happens. And being that close to someone. Because I think trauma is about disconnection and loneliness and helplessness and sexuality at its best is a very deep level of connection and of togetherness. 1:08:20 And yeah, it's, it kills us. I think that's why it's so important. That's why I say even though there's a war going on, whenever, wherever you can be alive, vivid, celebrating life, do that. 1:08:39 Do that. We have to be. You know, it's about strength. It's about resilience. Yeah. It's part of our resilience. And even though we've been wounded in this specific place, and maybe because of that, we want to be resilient in our sexuality and reclaim it. 1:09:03 It's like someone took it from us and abused it and we want to reclaim it. It's ours. It's our right. It's everyone's right to have their their pleasure and sexuality and we take it back. 1:09:19 It's ours. 1:09:21 Speaker 2 Thank you so much Smedow for coming, for driving all this way in the rain, and for your beautiful insights. 1:09:40 That's it for today. Thank you for listening to RAW. You can subscribe on any podcast platform and join our community at withanuk.com. Share this episode if it resonated with you and I'll see you next time.

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